Re: tumbling rocket and satellite

From: Alain Figer via Seesat-l <seesat-l_at_satobs.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 11:54:37 +0200
Many thanks, Brad, for your enthusiastic response.

At the moment I identified in the SeeSat-L a handful of observers showing a
significant interest in optical behaviour of satellites.
Our number is rather limited it seems. Moreover each of us have their own
objectives and methods - all different from those of each other -  and
that's ok.
However that probably sets limits to our present ambition.

A problem we are facing is adding our competences and contributions without
substracting whatever to each other's work.

It's not necessary, IMO, that we change anything to our methods now.
As a first step we  could simply locate all the stuff we are producing
about optical behaviour of satellites in a single data center.
Anyone could choose to use either the PPAS/PFAS format or not.

Alberto, Brad and Kevin seem to keep for theirself to the PPAS/PFAS format.
Whereas Leo is using his well-known own system such as :

"28538 05 004B 4172 G 20180224210336756 F, P ~ 22 sec.
23862 96 029D 4172 G 20180225032313460 F, P ~ 13 sec.
24795 97 020D 4172 G 20180225034230488 F, P ~8 sec. with Fff
21798 91 082A 4172 G 20180225054552448 F, with FA "

and could keep to it.
As for me I prefer posting a whole paper about each observation, as I have
been currently doing at Flickr for 7 years.

If all our contributions were also present in the same data center, it
would be much easier to perform synthesis work, at will.
In such a mindset I issued Leo Barhorst 2014-2018 observations in the
Flickr's data center here :

https://www.flickr.com/groups/satellites_artificiels/discuss/72157689682699925/


For exemple this data center is open to receive contributions by anybody,
everybody being allowed to issue and update their own contributions there.
Synthesis work could be added there by anyone willing to do it..
Obviously another data center could be proposed for such a collaborating
platform. I am obviously ready to accept any other suggestion.

Regards
Alain Figer

Le lun. 22 avr. 2019 à 09:15, Brad Young <allenb_young_at_yahoo.com> a écrit :

> I would be very interested too, as I always enjoy viewing satellite
> optical behavior, and have missed the activity of PPAS and the working
> group; it was more active when I started in 23003. I was not aware of
> astroguard.ru providing data on optical behavior; I glanced at their
> public reports and will have to check that out more thoroughly.
>
> Some ideas to discuss:
>
>    - If you'd like to limit your work to only Russian sats, no problem. I
>    may take on a broader scope. As with JSC Vimpel's positional work, our
>    independent analysis won't hurt.
>    - Hopefully several others will join in the fun, and may have their
>    own targets in mind.
>    - I attached (1) a dump of my FPAS reports extant on satflare.com
>    - The originating data is also in seesat-l posts from me as"BY F
>    XXXXXX"(2)
>    - Unfortunately, satflare stopped adding any more reports from anyone
>    last year. Obviously, we would not want to use that for reports.
>    - No problem here with future reports using PPAS format, but (as Leo
>    once wrote to you, "I would like to renew also this list and attract
>    more amateurs to search these objects." This might a good time, as sort of
>    a reboot, to consider alternatives.
>    - I'm going to start looking (and imaging) more variables and report
>    them via seesat.
>
> A few requests:
>
>    - My attempt to make a query on Space-Track to identify CIS / Russian
>    satellites that have not decayed and are not debris failed - do you hav e a
>    list of targets of that ilk?
>    - I also attached (1) my current extrapolation of the previous PPAS
>    priority list (I always looked at Mike's site for this). It is just a
>    worksheet in the sprawling behemoth that is my main satellite observing
>    spreadsheet. Again, with a reboot, we could look at improving both at the
>    priorities are assigned and how the list is presented.
>
> Notes:
> 1) Attachments bowdlerized for list posting.
> 2) My seesat posts titles refer to:
>
> OO-T-[Location]-MMDDYY
>
> OO = observer's initials
> T = type of report
>
>    - D = decay (not yet, but soon I hope!)
>    - F = FPAS - refer to Simone's description at: FPAS Reports -
>    Specifications <http://www.satflare.com/fpas.asp>
>    - G = flaring geosynchronous satellite reports
>    - P = PPAS
>    - R = remote imaging
>    - S = steady (in a PPAS or FPAS format)
>    - V = general visual observations
>
> It should also include:
>
>    - A = clear all day, clouds at sunset
>    - E = equipment lost, broken, stolen
>    - O = outreach at star parties where, once you're branded the
>    "satellite guy" you are expected to know the name, owner, and launch date
>    of every one that passes by
>
>
>
> Brad Young Visual:
> 10 x 50 binoculars
> Meade ETX-125
> 22" f/4.2 UC Obsession
> COSPAR 8336 =TULSA1 +36.139208,-95.983429 660ft, 201m
> COSPAR 8335 =TULSA2 +35.8311  -96.1411 1083ft, 330m
> Remote Imaging:
> MPC I89 COSPAR 7777 38.165653 -2.326735 5150ft, 1650m Nerpio, Spain
> MPC Q62 COSPAR 7778 -31.2733 149.0644 3400ft, 1122m Siding Spring, NSW,
> Australia
> MPC H06 COSPAR 7779 32.92 -105.528 7298ft, 2225m Mayhill, New Mexico USA
> MPC U69 COSPAR 7780 37.07 -119.4 4610ft, 1405m Auberry CA USA
> MPC 323 COSPAR 7782 -32.008 116.135 984ft, 300m Perth, WA, Australia
> MPC Q67 COSPAR 7784 -33.3967 149.4917 2081ft, 650m Bathurst NSW, Australia
> MPC W76 COSPAR 7785 -30.45 -70.75 5151 ft, 1570m Chacay, Chile
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, April 21, 2019, 7:15:15 AM CDT, Alain Figer <
> alain.figer_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The PPAS has been an extremely efficient and fruitful project, for many
> many years,  but it's seemingly dead now and that's obviously a pity.
>
> In my opinion, the 'astroguard.ru' russian site builds now the best
> database (MMT data) up to date about photometric behaviour of satellites.
> The only problem is they keep secret all the info about russian satellites.
>
> That's why I believe it would be of value to manage by ourselves a
> specific database for russian satellites.
> I am ready to take part enthusiastically to such a project.
>
> Regards
> Alain Figer
>
> N.B. I published my first observations in the PPAS database in 1973 as AF.
>
> See my own database (since March 2012) about satellite observing :
>
> LIST OF BEST FLASHERS at:
> https://www.flickr.com/groups/1983844_at_N22/discuss/
>
>
>
> Le dim. 21 avr. 2019 à 00:39, Brad Young via Seesat-l <seesat-l_at_satobs.org>
> a écrit :
>
> There are quite a few PPAS type reports of tumbling objects and other
> visually interesting satellites at:
> http://www.satflare.com/fpas_query.asp
> in a sortable database.
> To stretch this thread a little bit, I stopped reporting to that site
> because it doesn’t seem to be updating any new observations. Would it be
> useful to resume making PPAS report in the old style? It doesn’t seem like
> the PPAS list of interesting objects has been updated for quite some time.
> I have a personal list that may be of some interest. If anyone has any
> ideas or if interested and follow up please contact me off the list. With
> the northern summer months, and, it will be a good time to revitalize
> optical behavior observing work.
> Brad
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Saturday, April 20, 2019, 7:02 AM, tristan.cools--- via Seesat-l <
> seesat-l_at_satobs.org> wrote:
>
> Thanks Alain, I will follow the discussion forums.  I knew about some other
> Centaurs tumbling but to my knowledge it is rather rare but this is solely
> based on my own observations.(my observations of Centaur rockets isn't that
> large)  I have some trouble in finding updated PPAS records.  Are flash
> periods still beeïng reported somewhere ?  During the last 10 years I did
> some sporadic observations but didn't report anything anymore.
>
> gr, tristan cools
> Belgian Working Group Satellites
>
> Op za 20 apr. 2019 om 11:36 schreef Alain Figer <alain.figer_at_gmail.com>:
>
> >
> > Hi Tristan,
> >
> > > Most Centaur rockets have always been steady (according to my own
> > observations)
> >
> > I am somewhat surprised by such a statement, since it is not what I have
> > been currently noticing.
> > See for instance several threads in my blog at :
> > https://www.flickr.com/groups/satellites_artificiels/
> >
> > More exhaustively, the russian site 'astroguard.ru' (MMT data) lists
> > multiple examples of flashing Atlas Centaur rockets.
> > Concerning 2007-060B their graph shows how the rotation period has been
> > decreasing for the last years ;  their last measurement is at 48.72s for
> > the rotation period (twice your photometric period).
> >
> > See also the info by the same russian site about Landsat 4 1982-072A.
> > They measured a rotation period at 16.7 s in 2018 but observed the rocket
> > as 'Aperiodic'  in other circumstances too.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Alain Figer
> > Gometz: 48.67 N ; 2.13 E ; 170m a.s.l.
> > Vars: 44.57 N ; 6.68 E ; 1850m a.s.l.
> >
> >
> > Le sam. 20 avr. 2019 à 10:28, tristan.cools--- via Seesat-l <
> > seesat-l_at_satobs.org> a écrit :
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Most Centaur rockets have always been steady(according to my own
> >> observations) but I was surprised to see 07-60B/32379 as a nice regular
> >> varying object with a period of about 23s.  I think I will follow this
> >> object to see it's future flash behaviour.  Maybe this has already been
> >> reported...
> >>
> >> Another object, is the Landsat 4 satellite(82-72A/13367), no exact
> period
> >> measured but around 30s with sharp and round maxima.  In my old records
> I
> >> had a notice written that this satellite did have a mechanism to be
> >> retrieved by the Space Shuttle.  Well, it is too late for that, but only
> >> one satellite I think has ever been retrieved and re-launched I
> remember.
> >>
> >> greetings,
> >> Tristan Cools
> >> Belgian Working Group Satellites.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Seesat-l mailing list
> >> http://mailman.satobs.org/mailman/listinfo/seesat-l
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Seesat-l mailing list
> http://mailman.satobs.org/mailman/listinfo/seesat-l
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Seesat-l mailing list
> http://mailman.satobs.org/mailman/listinfo/seesat-l
>
>
_______________________________________________
Seesat-l mailing list
http://mailman.satobs.org/mailman/listinfo/seesat-l
Received on Mon Apr 22 2019 - 04:55:39 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.0 : Mon Apr 22 2019 - 09:55:40 UTC