Jay Respler (
Sat, 13 Jul 1996 05:57:42 -0400 (EDT)

When noting position of TIPS, what spot do you use?  The top, the bottom, or
some not so easily determined point in the middle?


>As you may remember, I earlier suggested that you might wish to include 
>EGP = Ajisai = 16908 = 86- 61 A in VISUAL.TLE.  You responded that it is 
>too faint. 

Yes, I remember.
>QUICKSAT.MAG supports your claim: 
>> 16908   86 61A    EGP             3.5  2.2 0.0 0.0 3.6 
>> flashes to 4th or 5th mag 

Glad to hear that Mike agrees with me.  I knew we kept him around for
something.   :)

>I wish to bring the following to your attention. 
>  They give a table of stellar magnitudes for 
>Ajisai for ranges from 1.5 to 2.9 Mm and .3 < k < .5 (not good to good 
>  Ajisai varies pretty wildly from time to time within a 
>single pass and also at different passes.  But at its best, I think I am 
>seeing 1st magnitude flashes, albeit of very short duration. 

Is this naked eye or with binoculars?
Does anyone regularly see EGP naked eye?
I seem to recall reading that although brightness is theoretically mag 1, it
is of such short duration that it does not register in the eye.  As a
practical matter, EGP only appears at about mag 5. All my obs have shown it
that way.

>   I can only guess what impact this may have on 
>your thoughts about the suitability of Ajisai for VISUAL.TLE. 

 Your input is always welcome.  

>it is invisible much of the time.  

That's why I didn't consider it for VISUAL.  I've had messages of frustration
from new observers who don't see predicted passes because they're too faint.
Looking for something like this would be more frustrating if it is not easily
visible naked eye.

>Equally certainly, it is an object of 
>extremely high interest to beginning visual observers,  because at special 
>and frequent moments it overcomes its usual invisibilty.

Aha.  But VISUAL is a list of bright, naked eye satellites, not visually
interesting ones.  It is for observers who want to easily predict what they
can go out and see without any additional equipment. I agree EGP is
interesting in binoculars.  But there are all the other lists that include
visually interesting objects.  EGP is probably on every one of them.  OIG,
N2L, Kelso's master TLE, ELxxx.  That's why it didn't seem necessary to have
it in VISUAL also. However, there is no other list that just tries to have
naked eye sats.
Many of these are not on the other lists.  That's why they should be in

>  Based on my 
>observing experience, I find it really, really difficult to believe that 
>there are more than 100 satellites of greater interest, though I have to 
>admit there might possibly be 100 that are easier to find, because you may 
>have to exercise some patience from a typical, badly polluted sky. 

Easier to find is what makes them of greater interest to naked eye observers.
That is the only basis for being in VISUAL.
>P.S.:  There are a few other, more conventional choices you might want to 
>add to VISUAL.TLE

>C* 2278 r      I have this scheduled to add. I will be doing so soon.
>Resurs 1-3 r      ditto

>C* 1844 r    This one seemed rather faint. What are your mag observations for

>C* 2297 r   OK for these.  Can you furnish some mag obs for these also?
>C* 2313 
>C* 2322 r 
>C* 2326 

Thanks for your input.  Anyone else have additions/subtractions?

Jay Respler
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