# RE: Apollo 16 Saturn 4B tles guess

From: Dale Ireland (direland@drdale.com)
Date: Wed May 26 2004 - 10:52:19 EDT

• Next message: Moritz Heger: "Re: Apollo 16 Saturn 4B tles guess"

```Thank you very much Mike
Not being an expert on TLE's I have a couple questions. First, if the Saturn
4B missed the Moon wasn't it heading for solar orbit. Can you tell that it
escaped earth orbit from looking at a value in the TLE's or will they just
make a larger and larger theoretical earth orbit.?
Second, can TLE's be converted to Sun centered Keplarian elements (probably
first to vectors I guess) so the orbits around the Sun of other S4B boosters
that didn't hit the Moon can be simulated in planetarium programs?
Dale

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike McCants [mailto:mmccants@io.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 5:39 PM
To: SeeSat-L@satobs.org
Subject: Apollo 16 Saturn 4B tles guess

According to the Apollo 16 timeline:

Apollo 16 was launched on April 16, 1972 at 17:54 UT.

The trans-lunar injection took place from 20:27 to 20:33 UT.

The lunar orbit insertion burn ended on April 19 at 20:28 UT.

The Saturn 4B crashed into the moon on April 19 at 21:02 UT.

I have come up with the following approximate elset for the transfer
orbit:

Saturn 4B tle guess
1 06001U 72031B   72107.85416667  .00000000 +00000-0 +00000-0       0
2 06001 030.0000 339.0000 9690000 315.0000   0.0000 00.09600000     0

This produces the following output for Austin, TX:

***  1972 Apr 17 *** Times are UT ***

MAG    HGT ALT AZI  HRS MIN     R  A    DEC  RANGE
12.2  46175  41 282    2  10    5 33.1  27.8  47439
12.3  48632  37 284    2  35    5 36.9  27.5  50133
12.5  51022  32 285    3   0    5 40.5  27.3  52778
12.6  53352  27 287    3  25    5 44.0  27.1  55377
12.8  55624  23 289    3  50    5 47.2  26.8  57931
13.1  57844  18 291    4  15    5 50.4  26.6  60443
13.4  60014  14 293    4  40    5 53.4  26.4  62911

***  1972 Apr 18 *** Times are UT ***

MAG    HGT ALT AZI  HRS MIN     R  A    DEC  RANGE
13.9 137565  57 269    2  10    6 56.4  24.7 138177
14.0 140209  44 276    3  10    6 56.5  24.5 141377
14.2 142797  31 282    4  10    6 56.9  24.3 144652

Mike McCants

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