Apologies to anyone who may have replied to my earlier mail about MIRACL etc... My net provider went tech and lost quite a of my incoming mail:-( Anyway a quick visit to the See Sat archives tells me it prompted a bit of interest,and some informative comments....by the way...the keps for MSTI-3 are in fact in the tle.new files on the Grove site...couldnt see 'em for looking!! Thanks again, regards, John.