Those lamenting the lengthening of the periods of the bright Zenit-2 rockets, still seeking easy targets, might look in on Lac 3 r. It has a moderate period, making it hard to see for a few seconds, and is fairly bright for a few seconds. Measurements of the period would be welcomed for the PPAS database and would allow you to follow the evolution of the period as eddy currents damp the rotational inertia. Lac 3 herself is steadier, but may show some variation. What do you see? These elsets are courtesy Mike McCants, from ftp://ftp.fc.net/pub/users/mikem/molczan.zip. Lacrosse 3 1 25017U 97064A 98035.19043974 .00000110 00000-0 19827-4 0 09 2 25017 57.0090 122.2897 0007000 142.5921 217.4079 14.66196472 06 Lacrosse 3 r 1 25018U 97064B 98036.21149306 +.00000922 +00000-0 +60980-4 0 00423 2 25018 057.0136 092.7999 0173095 355.8211 004.1340 15.06463400010085 They are presently making morning passes at this latitude, but as we enter one of the 2 "seasons" of the year when the same objects can be seen both morning and evening, they soon will be visible in the evening as well. One advantage of the mornings now, with Venus in the sky, is that it is possible to make more accurate estimates of the extreme brightness of Iridium glints. When I first noticed Mike McCants' abbreviation of vulgar names such as "Cosmos 1635-1642 r" as "Cosmos 1635 r", I didn't like it. Of course, I don't like much about vulgar names and their terrible variation. But with time, I have grown to like such abbreviations. They are very specific and relatively short. Not short enough for me. I like "C* 1635 r" and much approve Jay Respler's "C1635 r". Recently we have seen a proliferation of names for rockets which I like much less. Calling an object "Delta r" is pretty pathetic. For the Iridium launch vehicles, I would suggest, e.g., Irdm 8 r 1 24797U 97020F 98036.07894622 +.00000216 +00000-0 +45970-4 0 00844 2 24797 086.8938 049.7764 0250986 025.1246 336.1917 14.35879699039520 Unless such vulgar names contain the name of the A object (or another), they are ambiguous. That is very annoying. Ed Cannon's suggestion to number the launches has merit. But I would prefer using the A object to provide specificity in the vulgar name. An occasional post giving launch history would be informative and more complete than just scanning the most recent molczan.tle. I find the RGO format somewhat annoying because it uses CC80, meaning I often see it on my screen as double spaced. I would much welcome input from users of positional OBS as to the desirability and importance of any specific format. Cheers. Walter Nissen dk058@cleveland.freenet.edu -81.8637, 41.3735, 256m elevation not a member of any A-mateur astronomical community --- They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin, 1759